Welcome to Etherpad!

This pad text is synchronized as you type, so that everyone viewing this page sees the same text. This allows you to collaborate seamlessly on documents!

Get involved with Etherpad at https://etherpad.org

5 MINUTES MYRIAM VAN IMSCHOOT How to make sustainable work beyond only projects? This worry/question comes from my experience of entering a dossier for a structural subsidy. For 15 years this field has disencouraged influx rather than encouraged it. It was not possible any more to enter such a subsidy demand, Own income from 12% to 20%. You need to be a professional structure to become on, that’s a paradox. That’s unfair. There’s a structural push back to new structures. We are dealing with a defaitisme: people accept that it works like this. This is based on the fear of overproduction. “The field is full.” The result is that people moving from projects to projects, has become a kind of excluded and seperate zone. You are replaceble’. There’s something wrong in our field. This is a problem of ecology. In our break-out room I would like to discuss this. Maybe I have to refine my ideas?

About small structures and the political tendancy to favour big structures. I think this is a global tendancy in all sectors: Industrial, banks, but also partly public services and all human to human sectors (elderly care, healthcare, prison system, art, culture). At the same time this happens while we live a série of crises. The political reaction to the crisis their politics provoke is the reinforcement of this process of massive economical scaling. At the same time we see at one side a rise of authoritary and identity/nation based politics, wherein art and culture oftenly are instrumentalized. I know this sounds quite meta, but I share it here because I think it can also be a door for alliances with other people who live the same difficulties. I think about Mihaela, who worked for a little elderly care structure, which was taken over by Orpea, a mon in the elderly care sector f.e.

New structures are a risk for a profit-based or succes-seeking policy. Uncontrollable and maybe a “waste” of money. Luckily this reasoning is less present for scholarships in academic milieus. Why art shouldn’t need support in it’s search and research ? Little structures and searching artists are fundamental for renewal, for experiment, for questioning established or dominants sometimes toxic ideas. It could be interesting to convince larger groups of people that art is an essential part of a healthy surrounding. (And again, there is a link between this margin for failure and the margin for non profitable work in other sectors)

The idea of overproduction is interesting. I feel there is an overproduction of poorly products, a lot in mass culture. And personally I don’t draw a line between “arts” (as in museums, theaters, opéras) and “mass culture” (as in television, Netflix, huge festivals and bad radio stations). For me the overproduction that we should fear is the one that is opposed on large groups of workers. I don’t want to judge the quality of it, there are interesting series, musicals, popular pop songs. But I do condamn the fact that the discrepancy between studio 100 putting his money in legal tax havens and creators working in total precarity.

philippine hoegen sam vanoverschelde elien ronse jan busselen myriam van imschoot kate mayne eline de clercq katrien reist marialena marouda kobe matthys danielle van zuijlen pieternel of netwerk aalst

flexibility is everywhere, how do we connect this / what do we see in other fields?

Critical group of artists, very precarious also, active and resistant: tension between the workers and the structures

what are the fragilities that artis are facing. From an institutional point of view: open to hear voices and needs.

kunstendecreet: never understood why there isn’t a better distinction between structures and individual artists? What about the role of the beurzen? This is what should be able to create a basic income to operate from, but there is not enough budget to support enough artists Even when you want to support lonterm practices, you end up supporting projects.

chosing between supporting long term and projects is often also choosing between a few and many (or at least a few more)

Application process took 6 months, and then didnt hand it in in the end, heavy procedure.

How do politics and artists connect?

It took 20 years of working to be able to afford a studio, but now I don’t have time to go there.

We’re all in a position of need as creators. Can we also speak from a different impuls?

The generous side of being an artist.

Vragen terug:

@Danielle: what do you mean, artists vs organisations? wat is dat onderscheid, en waarom wil men zich meer entoureren… eigen organisatie…

Myriam: projects are the currency, there is nothing that covers long term research. This covers up, makes invisible, a lot of what the it means to be a practicing artist,.

Damielle: It’s great when artists make organisations, but artists should also be able to work on their own work.

Katrien: 3 year project money came back into the decreet.

Katrien/Phil: Project oriented system causes precarity and exhaustion.

Sam: The peers who judge are already ‘inside’, It’s an autoprotective system, a ghetto. It’s a ‘waterhoofd’ system. and even that autoprotective system has been institutionalised as the analysts and reviewers of the system adhere to the same ideas and beliefs of bigger is better, less dispersed is better. Kunstenpunt, (back in the days maybe, but I haven’t seen much change), in their analysis answer to an efficiency question that the politics are asking them to investigate, thus the answers are only pointing towards maximising efficiency and not (always) the quality of the field, the possibilities of the field/organisations/institutions to support on a broader scale or deeper envolvement to broaden the diversity. (I talked in slogans but I thought to add this a bit more nuanced)

eline: Transparency in different artist careers should help to write out different modes of subsidies for artists, and with options for support from different areas & organisations. Help artists to be less dependent on subsidies and better paid for the work they do? Artist collectives could be a good answer in this.

Myriam: But why do we want to organise ourselves as artists?

Marialena > the structure is meant to get away from the individual artist, the frames work that inviest and hosts, that poses conditions. How do we artistsic wotk to happen? Institution gives structure. Management sturtcure (HIROS) > we finance them./ ourselves within this structure.. No money no collaboration! Project development lastet for one year. My interest both existentional need and artistic interest. Sustainabiity

KObe > agency fouded in 1992. Idea of a ministery of causes. Different type of practice. The practice sits in between worlds, so you found your own (different type of) organisation> It is necssary to invent new organisations for a new world view

Philippine > Not all individual practices are are that individual....

Marialena > the system does not come from the individual Why depend of existing framework to apply for funcing It creates an unhealthy dependency

Kobe > catorgraphy os represented and reproduced in the system. Patterns of world views are reproduced in the

Myriam > my work is an ensemble, that does not stop afrer the worsk stops! History of collabortaion is cut of every time. We’re raising every time again construction the structire to work in.

not only about instituting, but about social biotopes

exhastive work, to begin again time and again, having to go through all the steps

multiplying your managerial work load

we need (back to) small structure.

Kobe > influx and outflux Important to talk about outflux. Bigger ones will always stay there forever…

Who actually made the move of being absorbed. People understimate what it is to continue such a practice, so it isnt always possible.

Uitstroom happens in the level of individual artists Too much work has led to uitstroom not in the structures.

Myriam> Outflux happens most often to individual artists, after years of hard work they end out of accumulated rejection. These artists dissapear from the field without much notice. New artists take their place with fresh energy.

Kate > what the subsidies offer is mismatchted with what is needed. Is there a conversation?

Katrien: There arre many conversations, attempts to explain the realities of the field.

Danielle: we need more support for artsits run structures. There should be made space for that and not have large structures be assased in the same commissions as
More diversity.

Kobe: Smaller structures are more suitable for the fragile position of individual artists ?

I would like to add that diversity often comes out of the meeting between different areas from within the art fields. Specific focus on the typology of the artist structure (smaller organisations).

samenvatting why would artists want to organise themseves in an organistion, next to the beurzen en project money.
different types of instituting what if there are more ‘artists structure’?

Uitstroom/ uitstroom > the biggest uitstroom is happening the projectfield and not in the institutions themselves

project creates work load, extra work which would be less work oif one is ‘better’ (more sustainable) organised a lot of practices involve collective working, which also needs other structures

we have to go for the obvious: available budget the amount of work that is required to organise project is completely imbalanced for the amount of money you can get.

the chat:

20:53:56 From Myriam Van Imschoot - guest to Philippine - SOTA(Direct Message): Mooie vraag: artist vs organisation 20:54:04 From Myriam Van Imschoot - guest to Philippine - SOTA(Direct Message): danielle stelt zich daar vragen bij 20:54:35 From Myriam Van Imschoot - guest to Philippine - SOTA(Direct Message): wat is dat onderscheid, en waarom wil met zich meer entoureren… eigen organisatie… 21:05:20 From Eline De Clercq - SOTA to Everyone: Transparency in different artist careers should help to write out different modes of subsidies for artists, and with options for support from different areas & organisations. Help artists to be less dependent on subsidies and better paid for the work they do? Artist collectives could be a good answer in this. 21:20:37 From Kate Mayne to Everyone: Sorry my battery died 21:23:12 From Myriam Van Imschoot - guest to Everyone: 2 minutes… and then a break? 21:23:59 From Eline De Clercq - SOTA to Everyone: I agree completely with Kate 21:26:25 From Kate Mayne to Everyone: Smaller structures are more suitable for the fragile position of individual artists ? 21:26:59 From Kate Mayne to Everyone: Thank you for this 21:27:25 From Philippine - SOTA to Katrien Reist SOTA host(Direct Message): https://almanac.state-of-the-arts.net/w/OpenMeetings::OpenMeeting4::Support_for_interspaces_in_artists%E2%80%99_careers.md 21:27:42 From Marialena Marouda to Everyone: thanks everyone! 21:27:46 From Katrien Reist SOTA host to Everyone: https://almanac.state-of-the-arts.net/w/OpenMeetings::OpenMeeting4::Support_for_interspaces_in_artists%E2%80%99_careers.md

WRAP UP first step and get to know and to get connected with people from other fields good that you do not need to subscribe and keep it open for people nice to connect| We should have more like these co-organise the session in Monty with the FB group? (125 people) very quiet at the moment AnneCharlotte would like to join for the next session! Judith: very interesting, also to see so many young people We have to be very careful on how we talk and how we present subjects I still consider myself still as student. The division between young and old, and divisions in general It is so important to keeping the possiblity to keep on learning. spaces to grow and develop.

some issues from the chat: From Arthur Decock For anyone interested in the Facebook group we were talking about, here’s a link:https://www.facebook.com/groups/319916319667245/. It’s called L.A.P.D.A.N.N.S. - I’d like it to be a safe space for young creators to share their worries about the artistic landscape and for people to lay connections. Just trying to help each other. It’s having a slow start, but everyone is welcome :)

From sam vanoverschelde to Everyone: I was trying to get in touch with the almanac coordination to propose a statement about what we touched upon in previous session but didn’t get there yet. I’ll try to gather the people involved by the 26th sam vanoverschelde to Everyone: forgot to save the chat to get some of the contacts, if someone can send it on to sam@visualkitchen.org

From Marialena Marouda to Everyone: Thank you. I would be happy to meet again and exchange about the smaller artists institutions discussion

From Sep - tech host to Everyone: On IRL vs Online. Having both live and online offer such a different qualities or possibilities. The amazing feeling of sharing a physical space, socialisation versus not having to move, last minute decision option to be passive and introvert, …

From Myriam Van Imschoot - guest to Everyone: myriam.vanimschoot@gmail.com

From Judith Vindevogel to Everyone: artistiek@walpurgis.be 21:59:49 From Veroline Vanderbeek to Everyone: verolinevanderbeek@hotmail.com 21:59:50 From Alexandra Fraser to Everyone: alexandrafraser@hotmail.co.uk 21:59:59 From Arthur Decock - guest to Everyone: arthurdc@hotmail.be 22:00:06 From Kate Mayne to Everyone: katemayne@gmail.com 22:00:08 From Jan Busselen to Everyone: janbusselen2@gmail.com 22:00:10 From Yasmine to Everyone: Yasmine.akondo@gmail.com 22:00:11 From Johannes Wirix to Everyone: johannes.wirix@hotmail.com 22:00:13 From Wouter Hillaert - SOTA to Everyone: https://www.ntgent.be/nl/producties/welk-onderwijs-willen-jongeren-zelf 22:00:30 From Kobe Matthys to Everyone: for the almanac you can contact kobe@agentive.org 22:01:02 From Perry Brienen to Everyone: I’d definitely like to stay in touch for future meetings; perrybrienen@hotmail.com 22:01:19 From Katrien Reist SOTA host to Everyone: Very nice, everyone, THANKS! 22:01:31 From Sep - tech host to Everyone: Sep@louislou.be (for the almanac) 22:01:45 From Wouter Hillaert - SOTA to Everyone: wouterhillaert@gmail.com 22:02:08 From Marialena Marouda to Everyone: marialena.pouskouri@gmail.com From Kobe Matthys to Everyone: kobe@agentive.org